They have been known to meddle .... they have been know to blow up items just to prove their worth ... 

Sure, I've given'em hell right back. It's ok if we are not pals at the closing.

I don't know what a 'smoke cert' is. 

If the fee is for an endorsement and the original is required for its issuance and you fail to provide it,  or advise others not to provide it, you may be assuming the liability. The rules may be silly, but they are to be followed.

Jay we don't deal with attorneys here (AZ) with contracts or closings so it's rare we need an attorney.  A question maybe once in a while but that's it.

Jay,

Although attorneys are not there for our closing in CA, they are around when it comes to reviewing leases.  My hackles rise the moment they say, "I am not a deal breaker, I am a deal maker!"  Seriously, we have worked with some of the very best attorneys in commercial real estate in Los Angeles, and I would recommend them in a heartbeat...like with everything else they are good ones, and then there are those who are a royal pain.  A

Quite fortunately, we do not have attorney closings in the great state of Arizona. However, as a CRE broker I do have to deal with attorneys frequently. Rarely do they hose our deals. The only time there is a problem is if it's an out-of-state attorney who does not completely understand our tribal customs. Which kinda sounds like what you're dealing with. It's unfortunate when anyone does not defer to the one with the knowledge. Personally, I'm much happier dealing with attorneys than banks any day of the week. I'd rather sick the attorneys on them.

Our attorneys here are pretty much nothing more than settlement agents, so it's rare I need to push back at them. And if they are not performing, I simply fire them and move on.

"....spoiling the hard work of agents...."

I would never limit this list to attorneys but include the 10 other parties who can find relevance by sabotaging a deal.

EXAMPLE FROM TODAY

Lender located in Panhandle of Florida has buyer who select a condo in my area. Things progress and we have to extend contract one week to close TODAY. But lender goes silent. When is the closing day and time?

Buyer does not know what to do and lender will not talk to buyer or listing agent to discover the cause. Escalation confirmed lender attempted no communication with buyer this week. THE WEEK OF CLOSING!!!

King Tut we discover, assigned this mortgage activity to another mortgage broker licensed in my area without advising or disclosing to the buyer, who is their client.

This lender will spoil the work of two agents, the duress of the buyer and lost opportunity and increased cost for the seller.

Don't get me started on Inspectors in search of relevance.

However, be aware attorneys will be instrumental in post NAR real estate reality. Don't shoot them all. We will need a few to keep real estate changing ownership.

Most attorneys don't react well to criticism from Realtors, so I get my brother in law (a circuit judge) to help me educate them and show them the light.

The good thing here in NH it is rare for a alwyer to get involved, when they do they often make a mess. I will push back when needed

Here in CA, we do not need to deal with attorneys. That makes me very happy. 

Jay McHugh - you got a good point.

I am fortunate in this regard.

  Attorneys here act as Closing agents.  

I have very few problems with real estate attorneys meddling or screwing up closings. On the other hand, divorce, bankruptcy and probate attorneys march to a beat of a different drummer.

Thank goodness we do closings with title companies and don't have the big legal egos getting in the way.

Not a West Coast  problem, Realtors do all the the work here, attorneys are for probate, trust and estate sales only-mostly.

Sounds like they have been having lots of laughs at their Bar Meetings at your expense. Good for you in sticking up for your clients.

Sometimes attnys need a little schooling on the law.

We don't deal with attorneys in Oregon which makes closings much, much simpler. We do have issues sometimes with out of state lenders, however, expecting items which are not required in our state, such as termite inspections. We have to educate them through the course of the deal.

It's good to know the law.

So what is the objection to bringing the original certificate of compliance to closing?  A little inconvenience?  Unfortunately, with technology these days, a document can be changed or manipulated and a PDF of a changed smoke cert would open the closing agent to liability if he or she relied on it for closing.

For those who aren't aware, Massachusetts requires a "smoke certificate" issued by the local fire department showing that a property has working smoke detectors.  I haven't practiced in Massachusetts in a while, but I believe it is good for 60 days.  An unscrupulous seller or agent could change the date of an expired one and email a PDF copy to the closing attorney.

All it takes is one bad actor and policy is enacted that affects everyone else.

I suggest asking the attorney in advance if they require the original.

I have lunch with my attorneies every week.  We have a good relationship.  Of course, I've known them for 20+ years now even before they went to law school.

Plus, we're an escrow state here.

Thankfully, we do not use attorneys in transactions in CA. If an attorney is involved it most likley means ... some kind of trouble!

It's always interesting to see how our business is conducted  in different locations.  For the most part, attorneys are not involved in our transactions as part of the closing process.  

As Alexandra Ron and Alexandra Seigel stated in her answer -- you can find "all kinds" in any business and in life.  It's quite the adventure, isn't it?    

they do like to throw their weight around

Anna Banana Kruchten,CRS,CRB,GRI nailed this one!

I seldom deal with Lawyers in closings directly - sometimes with estate sales, usually thay're not that terrible to deal with

Work at a law office(RE). Often they back off.  I also suggest to the clients not to accept their counter and move to next property.

I rarely have an issue with an attorney but, wouldn't hesitate to push back if I know I'm right on an issue.

I don't know what a smoke cert is but, here's what I would do:

A. Make a list of those attorneys who require one - be sure the smoke certs are readily available well before Closing, should the attorney ask for one.

B. Provide a list of Closing attorneys who do not require a smoke cert and only recommend those to your buyers.  

C. If you're representing the seller and know this is a potential hold-up, check with the attorney as soon as the buyer determines who the Closing attorney is going to be and refer back to A.

Jay McHugh I haven't had any problems with attorneys. I was doing a commercial lease. My client hired an attorney whose speciality wasn't commercial real estate transcations. His knowledge of contract law got us through to lease signing with few issues.

We rarely see attorneys involved here. No smoke cert required here but providing smoke and carbon monoxide detectors is requested of sellers in our contract (normally) and sellers acknowledge they will do so. But if no one actually checks them during due diligence...

Smoke Detector Affidavits are signed at the closing here, so there is little delay or hiccups for the closing. The attorneys then make copies of them to send with the agents and parties to the transaction. Solves lots of issues if you ask me.

Really, we do not have that in Denver.

Join board leadership, give to RPAC, and head to the capital.

We do not have a problem with our favorite lawyers in Maryland.

The Real Estate pie is always going to be cut-up as many want a slice to eat